Paganism talks about equality between the two genders. I talk about the days of the Celts where men and women were equals. Both men and women can own land, inherit wealth, and fight in battle as equals. In Celtic society it was the person with the most financi9al wealth in the marriage that made the decisions, and so the female could very well make all the decisions of the family. It was the spread of Southern European and Christian values that put an end to that. Soon women were treated as property and second rate people. Something that I find disgusting.
We have made some great changes in society since then. Women have laws in place to protect them from being treat bad by most men. I say most men because not all men follow the law. Women can go to college and enter the job market like most men can now. There are still some issues with equality, but it is caused by a select few men, not the majority in general.
One of the great aspects of Paganism is that it promotes gender equality. And so many women flock to paganism for a chance to have religious freedom that they are not allowed in many Abrahamic groups. This has cause a great imbalance of women to men in paganism. And it is starting to affect the balance in paganism , in my opinion. Feminism has been crawling in at a steady rate and is now affecting groups of pagans.
As I stated in a previous post, with the Arrest of Kenny Klein, a door was opened to promote feminism quicker in paganism. I saw a few statements that were also direct transfers of rhetoric from Atheist Plus to paganism. With mentioning the "Don't be that Guy" campaign in Canada. I find this troublesome.
Today , I encountered feminism in a Facebook group, and it inspired me to write this blog. I have been seeing a lot of imagery and comments about women be better than men. I responded to image that has a man apologizing to a female deity, the female being mother earth. And I would have just ignored the whole image, but it has the female aspect calling the man aspect self centered. Then it stated that the earth would survive with man by stating" You are fucking yourself over big time and you won't be missed." I found this to be a massive insult to me. SO I stated that I found this image to be sexist by having the man being showed as flawed and the woman as a goddess. And then how I usually see many goddess images on Facebook, but so little god images. Then I used science to remind that life here would be possible if it wasn't for the sun. Many aspects view the sun as male and the earth female. SO where was the gender balance in this image.
And the response was classic feminist tactics.
Lena Breijer The sun is female too - get over it.
Lorn West No, in some paths, the sun is considered male. learn something.
Telling me to 'get over it' was an aggressive move be this lady. I responded in kind, by telling her to learn something.
JD Hobbes Dial it back Lorn. No need to be so aggressive. We're all just sharing our ideas.
Lorn West JD , And someone just told me to 'get over it', where is your comment to her to not get aggressive?
JD Hobbes Telling Lena to "learn something" was unnecessary and insulting
Lorn West And her telling me to 'get over it' was insulting to me. and yet you said nothing.
JD Hobbes Boo-hoo. Life is so unfair.
Lorn West Oh great the white knight is here.
The white knight is a man that will defend any and all females in a fight even if she was the one that started the fight. There has been many studies and TV shows that show white knights in action. Women in general can cause fights in groups of people because they know that most men would enter the fight to defend her, even though she threw the fight punch.
And the feminist rhetoric is in Paganism. I was asking for equality, was never insulting towards women.
Serendipity Ninth perhaps you can "get over" your male white privilege and see things through alternative eyes...
Lena Breijer Yes the sun is male in some southern regions - like those have have tried to run over the rest of the world for the last 3000 years - get over it. It is our turn. Most of what has been done to the earth that s discussed was due to male gods and and MEN in power wanting more and more power and cash - suck it up baby
Lorn West white male privilege, comment that is sexist and racist at the same time. Just because a man is white doesn't mean that he is blessed with privileges.
Serendipity Ninth you may not recognize the privileges you have, but being annoyed by this comic shows male privilege in that you're annoyed that it doesn't fit your comfortable stereotypes (just the uncomfortable ones).
See the spite that these pagan women have for men. It is so terrible and unneeded. SO let me get this straight, because men from 200 years ago did some bad things it is my fault. Just because men from 1000 years ago did some stupid things I must be held accountable because I have a penis. I am not those men that oppressed any woman a hundred years ago from attending college. I am not the man that blocked equal pay, but these angry ladies are holding me responsible for it. I have to pay for the crimes committed against women for the last 3000 years in some areas just because I have a penis. The sins of the father are passed on to the son for eternity.
Lena's ending to her comment was absolutely pathetic. "suck it up baby". Another aggressive angry comment by the same person, and the white knight does nothing. Calling me a baby is an insult, and this JD Hobbes is the supposed admin for a debate group. The typical white knight does exactly what white knights do. Goes blind to female aggression and only sees men as the aggressors. It is his way to pay for the guilt he has for the crimes ,against females committed over the last 3000 years. Even though he has done none of it.
SO I have to ask a simple question. Do any of these ladies and all ladies in general use these advances created by man ? I personally find it hypocritical for women to complain about the ways 'men' have corrupted the world, but have no problems using these advances that resulted in their actions. Most of the current smart phones a dependent of rare metals to function, these metals are strip mined in China. Yet how many have the latest cellphone? I don't own a cellphone, and I never will.
I have seen women's business groups form all over Facebook and other social media. And that would be fine if these same women didn't complain about the 'good ole boy's club'. https://www.facebook.com/myBWNOnline So why are men wrong for doing something that women are doing? IN Canada , women protest the MRA events. Funny how it would be sexist and oppressive for men to protest Women's events , but it is alright for women to protest men's events.
As I see it, women have benefited from all the advancements of 'men' but they are passing the blame for all the bad results on men. Women have aided in development of sciences as well, but only man is guilty for raping the earth. I am tired of hearing that society is a patriarchy or male dominated. Bars have Ladies night, where woman can drink half priced drinks, men don't have that. Men are told to give up their seat so a lady can sit down. Half of the Domestic violence in the US is proven statistically to be caused by women, but there is a "Violence against Woman act". The selective Service still only requires boys to sign up at age 18, not women. There have been wonderful female world leaders like Margaret Thatcher of the UK, Merkel for Germany. In the "Ban Bossy" campaign one of the speakers is a woman that is a billionaire.
So I will end this with one simple question. The Feminist movements has created many laws that protects women's rights to go to college, get a job, and buy a home. There are laws that protect a woman and give her special treatment if she suffers from domestic abuse. There are laws now and some still be worked on that provide women with equal pay rate. There are many colleges and business that now have quota on how many women must be employed, meaning that a better male candidate could be turned down to make the quota. Has feminism grown so powerful and drunk with power that they don't want equality, they want vengeance?
The next time you watch a feminist video, see if they mention 'women's rights' or 'equal rights'. If they can't mention 'equal rights' they are not working for equal rights.
The posting rules in the GPD state that you are not to copy posts from it to other more public pages without the author's permission. And no, you do not have my permission to copy/paste what I said, much less link it to my Facebook page.
ReplyDeleteAs a courtesy, I'm asking you to either take this blog post down or rewrite it without quoting the people by name and links from the Facebook group.
Since I am no longer a member of the Pagan chat zone, those rules do not apply to me.
DeleteThey applied to you at the time that you copied said items, you were bound by the rules you agreed to when you joined said group. So by your actions you are creating the appearance of being an oath breaker. Keep that in mind as Karma does have a nice way of balancing the universe. As a fellow moderator of that group I will again ask that you remove any materials that you do not have the author's permission to use.
DeleteThe group in question is an open group and the comments can be seen by the public, thus no permission is needed. Karma is also a Hindu concept, and I am not Hindu. So please keep your dogma away . I just hate it when people try to push their religious views at me.
DeleteYou keep complaining how the pagan community needs to be more responsible, more mature, and hold itself to a higher ethical standard. As a matter of courtesy and holding yourself to that same higher ethical standard, I'm asking you to respect people's privacy and not repost their statements to a public forum without their permission or consent.
DeleteAgain, they made there posts on an open group, which means that the public can see them. Once a comment is made to the open public, it can be reposted and used by any member of the public as they see fit. The way I see it, the only reason why people might not like the blog I wrote is because it shows them in a light they can't handle.
DeleteBut something very interesting has occurred. See Marie C's comments also have her pasting a post made by me, and you are saying nothing about it to her. And so the double standard has occurred again concerning you. I gave you a chance to fix that, and you did nothing. That is why I called you a white knight, remember. A woman can do something wrong and you do nothing, a guy does something you consider wrong and you are all over it. You are a pathetic joke in my opinion. And just like the Private message I sent you. This shows why I have no respect for you as a man. I guess you should have asked her to remove her post as well as asking me to remove mine, but you didn't. and thus it stays. Get over it, suck it up baby, you are acting like a troll.
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ReplyDeleteI know men can be feminists, did you forget the reference to the white knight? And I am not mad that Gaia is a woman, that is a desperate attempt to insult my statements. We humans personify gods in our images so that we can relate to them. And if you had an active IQ you would have remembered that I talked about different paths have the sun as male. Thus I have a better understanding of the different pantheons than you do. And I never said your ignorant statement..." what you say is: Make the Deity a patronising male figue and blame women! Is this the real problem? Seriously? If you can't quote me, then don't do it at all. And yes that is my post, and there is nothing wrong with it.
DeleteI hope this helps with your miss conceptions of feminism. You mistake it for mysandry.
ReplyDeletehttp://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2012/12/reasons-people-believe-feminism-hates-men/
I never mistook misandry for misogyny. I have a better understanding of the terms and the world.
DeleteWow Lorn. You really refuse to remove peoples' personal information from your blog? You really do not understand why so many of the groups you join end up disliking and even banning you from them? The in person groups in your local area have ostracized you, groups on the internet ostracize you, and yet you cannot even look in the mirror long enough to figure out why. You are so busy rationalizing your behaviors and telling yourself that you see so many things that others are simply blind to that you fail to see your own self honestly. Have you ever been diagnosed with a behavioral disorder? This is one of the only explanations I have for who you choose to be. If not, have you ever considered talking to a counselor/psychologist? You are so convinced that you are being persecuted, so convinced that every nasty insult you deliver is totally justified and a response to some wrong done to you first... These are signs of inner sickness, not wisdom. It is not your opinions I am talking about (although you espouse some rather short-sighted ones), it is the attitude behind them. You are not being persecuted. You are doing offensive and aggressive things to people who you know next to nothing about, and crying "persecution" when they draw boundaries with you. Look in the mirror Lorn. The place you find your self in with regards to all of the communities who know you is your own damn fault. You deserve every ounce of "disrespect" that is daily heaped upon you.
ReplyDeleteI don't do the victim card. And I know that I am very passionate when I start a project. Fail to see who I am, sorry you are wrong there, I don't hide behind social graces that many others do. I am a non-conformist. You talk about me being removed from groups, But there are groups of people that I fit in perfectly with. I actually help people learn about paganism. I give people sound calm advice. It is a shame that you don't see everything that I do. Then maybe you could make a different opinion of me. So far you have only commented on two of my rants, nothing that I have done that was positive. SO as I see it, you only know one side of me, the beast. We all have are darker sides, even you do. I just don't keep mine locked-up hidden from everyone else. Repressing emotions is not healthy, finding a way to vent anger and stress is best. But think of me as you will, and I shall continue my journey.
ReplyDeleteIf you don't want Marie to quote you, you can choose to control that. That is your choice and you can act on it because this is your blog. But you've quoted me without permission and there is nothing I can do except ask you not to do it (which I have done and you have refused). It's not my job to reprimand other people on your blog.
ReplyDeleteAnyhow, live on in your wee Kingdom little man. I'm done with you.
And there it is ladies and gentlemen, the White knight changing his story to fit his needs. In his first post he states that is the rules of the group not to copy and paste comments. Marie copy and pasted a comment and he did nothing. Then in his last post it was only about his name being connected to his comments. And Marie is free to copy anything she wants. Consistency in rule enforcement please. I absolutely hate people that try to enforce on a select few people. If I am wrong, I will admit that I am wrong, but you have to apply the same rules to everyone. JD Hobbes has shown again his weakness. He stated that it is not his job to reprimand people on my blog, but that is what he tried to do with me with comments from that group. Marie took comment from the same thread and posted them on this blog, how is that any different?
ReplyDeleteI'm not part of the group. I did not know of the rules, I was asked to read them, I did and removed my post.
DeleteSo you are not part of the group? but you were able to copy and paste a comment that was only up for about 48 hours. I never mentioned the group name, so how could you have found it? But there is a Marie-Claude Dufour that is a member of that group with a picture that looks just like you. Interesting!?!?!
DeleteMCD is someone else entirely.
DeleteSorry, but I am going to use Occam's razor here. Someone that is not following my blog was able to quote me from a group that she is not a member of and post it on my blog. Considering the small size of your group, it is highly unlikely that there would be two Marie C. that look the same, be involved in the situation, and try to help out JD Hobbes. The simplest result is Marie C is the lady I checked out on the member list , and she is trying to help JD hobbes get his quotes removed. She made the mistake of quoting me and it put Hobbes in a bad situation.
DeleteShe was able to see what was going on in that Group because Marie C. is a friend of mine and can see my feed, so she saw me post the original graphic and got curious (I'm assuming). The C in Marie C. is the first letter of her family name, while for MCD, D is the first letter of her family name. These are two different people.
DeleteAgain, what other people do on the Internet is not my job to fix. This is between you and me. I would have preferred to have been asked to have my posts recopied to this blog, and as this is the least you can do in terms of courtesy and respect, it also applies to the other people you quoted without permission, but it's up to them to follow-up on that.
Lastly, you say that you don't mind being quoted as long as you're being quoted in full, but you cherry-picked your quotes to prove your theories and conclusions. Who's enjoying a double-standard now?
I didn't cherry pick a single comment of mine. I also didn't post every comment that everyone made for the whole thread either. And I am still going to follow Occam's razor here.
DeleteIf you don't like being quoted, fix it. I don't like to be quoted, so I have to ask you not to do it. I'm not Marie's keeper so I can't control what she does. Stop making this a gender issue because that is a lie.
ReplyDeleteI don't mind being quoted as long as the person posts the full quote.
DeleteYou took everything i said upside down Lorne. To show you my maturity, i will take off my post. I hope you prove us your good will and do it too. I wish you peace and serenity my brother.
ReplyDeleteHello, Lorne. :)
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, I wish to state my intent: intelligent conversation instead of hate or anger.
As a female pagan, I can get just as appalled at some of the utter idiocies spewing from the mouths of my fellow females. I am not a feminist, and I'm not whatever you would call the other way around; I am an equalist. (I am unsure if that is a proper word, but still.) Having stated that, it's not JUST women who have that "quota" you mentioned earlier. The entire system is ironically defeating its own purpose by forcing companies to hire under-qualified applicants just because of skin color, and in some cases, religion as well; to the point that I have seen hiring managers refuse to interview certain people. (one manager I previously worked for refused to interview anybody that was white, unless they were female... and the person in front of me for that job was much more qualified for it than I was. I quit pretty quickly.)
Honestly, I agree with you that there are some individuals who want vengeance for what was done to them YEARS ago. I see that in African American youths as well... and it's gotten to the point that there are large numbers or groups of them who decide to say something stupid at the same time to create a stereotype or preconceived notion in others outside of their tiny little minds. To those people, I say "please sir/madam, launder your mind before approaching me again; I do not wish to deal with your funk."
But within Paganism, this could be a serious problem for us. If too many decide that "yeah, I don't like men because they screw us over literally and figuratively" and spew negativity left and right, I believe that it may set us back quite a bit; but then how to deal with it without pissing everybody off? I have an idea, but i don't really know of that great of a way to get it out there: ask people to keep their negative opinions to themselves unless asked... and even then to speak cautiously. Not only for the sake of the listener, but for the speaker's sake, too; putting negative into the world draws more of it back to you, correct? Then why do we speak it? To vent? Bottling emotions is unhealthy, yes, but sitting somebody else down and ranting at them for an hour... that doesn't set well with me. I tend to write my negativity down and then burn the paper it's written on, take a shower to cleanse it, or (as you do here! :3 ) blog.
I am not attempting to judge you, or be negative towards you. As I said earlier, I wish for intelligent conversation from a fellow pagan; hopefully we can learn from each other. :)
What do you think about the ideas/issues presented? Perhaps I may have overlooked some facet of one of my arguments.
By the way, I found your blog through your youtube channel. Good stuff! I hope to watch the second misconceptions about paganism video you did again, and possibly show it to my Christian friend who has always had a hard time keeping her mouth shut about how I'm "going to hell" and how "satan will backstab you!"... and my personal favorite, "I will pray for your soul... you're gonna need it come judgement day". Is that all right with you? Do you have any ideas on how I can politely ask her to respect my chosen path enough that she can just keep her comments to herself?
Blessed be!