The first group was a local coven that welcomed me into the fold. I was the thinker of the group and I loved the interaction. But work and egos got in the way and I left that group.
The second group was mostly from Des Moines, a longer drive, but I thought it would be worth it. I went to a couple of events and I liked the group. I loved the potluck concepts and the talking to people about topics important to pagans.
Then the event happened that changed everything for me. They went to church, they set-up a CUUP's chapter. I didn't want to follow what they became. Didn't we leave the church for certain reasons? And here is a group of pagans running back to the church to form their own organized religious group. How quickly did they forget!
It bothers me so much because they rejected what they were, and became something most pagans hated. An organized religious group with leaders and a hierarchy. One man labeled himself as the Coordinating liaison officer for this group. They used to use a facebook page.. . https://www.facebook.com/sacredpathsdsm. And if you scrolled down the timeline you will discover one thing. Before they started this CUUP's chapter they took pictures and posted events for people to attend. Then that facebook page went dead.
They created a new facebook page to use. https://www.facebook.com/SacredBridgesCUUPs People that didn't fit their grand scheme were not invited. They created a facebook group as well https://www.facebook.com/SacredBridgesCUUPs and again only a select few were told of this change. Now I might sound bitter about not being included. I wouldn't have joined them if they invited me because I will not step in a church because of what it represents.
I will continue to live by my standards. I don't want or need a church. I can use any building to get fellow pagans together and enjoy each others thoughts and concerns. I don't need a coordinating liaison to organize an event. I will either celebrate it alone or see what a group wants to do. I won 't forget the past and the reason why I don't want to be a part of an organized religion.
If this is the price for being accepted as a mainstream religion, I don't want it. If I have to go through the Sunday best clothes to compete with the pagans in the next town, forget it. If I have to turn my back on people that don't fit in, count me out.
I want an open circle of pagans to build a pagan community. People are allowed to enter or leave as they wish. There is no set building to meet in. Events would be decided by the group as a whole. There would be no High priest or priestess because everyone helps teaching everyone. I know that I don't know everything and so someone might be able to help me out. And that is something that I would welcome.
What part of Iowa do you hail from? In my summer travels I visit the Mississippi River flyway connecting with nature and sometimes people in the river towns. I am a Circle Sanctuary community member. Maybe we could circle sometime.
ReplyDeleteI live closer to the Missouri river. I am roughly 80 miles east of Council Bluffs.
DeleteLorn here are a few facts for you, one most pagans are members of a UU church and there are some of the UU church's who do support CUUPS groups including the one in Des Moines which I know two of the members who are a part of the leadership board for the church. Now granted I also tried contacting sacred paths with no response but now that I do have contacts with the sacred bridges group and have met with them officially as of today at the pagan leadership meeting we are all on the same page together. There will also always be high priest and priestess's and elders who pagans look to for leadership, to ask questions of which will always be a fact no matter what. The true facts that you are expressing is your dislike for pagans who do attend CUUPS and that is your right, but to outwardly attack like you are shows little character on your part. There is now a Iowa Pagan Leadership Group and a very good group of people who want only the best for all pagans of this state and yes I am a part of that board, I invite anyone who has questions to come talk to me in a positive manner on FB.
ReplyDeleteYou wish to question my character... You blocked me on facebook because you didn't like what I said. While it is your choice, it shows that you can't handle differing opinions and attitudes. How are you able to claim to be a leader when you can't handle me. I find it funny that you had to run and tell others about my post. When two of the members of that facebook group are part of the group I was referring to. You couldn't let them handle it, you had to chastise me because it is your way or no way. And since I know you are going to run to them, could you ask them why they had to change the name of the group? See to me they changed it to fill a personal need. They wanted to be more accepted by society and joined CUUP so that they can claim to go to church , just like all the so-called normal people. And realize that I didn't add that to my blog because I was trying to state facts and not result into character assassination. Sacred paths was a pagan group, sacred bridges is a Unitarian group. Just a fresh coat of paint so that the members would look good. I have to wonder about their leadership because by changing the name to fit in, it makes me wonder about the dedication to the pagan cause. During the good weather they might fly the pagan flag, but when the bad weather strike will they fly the Pagan or Unitarian flag?
DeleteSacred Paths was one group. Existing independently. Sacred Bridges is a completely different group composed of different people. It was not a name change. It was a new group creation, voted on by the chartering members. Similarities in name exist but the one is not a continuation of the other. There were several other members of Sacred Paths that did not come to the UU, and they are free to continue that group as they see fit. We continue to invite them to our functions because we consider them friends, not because it is the same group.
DeleteI'm sorry if you feel left out, but actions such as this, tearing down others when you claim to want to build community, is all we see from you. Why would we intentionally invite that negativity into our lives? Try something new. Spend a month blogging about all the good things you see happening in the Pagan world around you without once belittling or condescending or insulting. You might like the responses better.
Harm none, do as thou wilt. Everyone has their own path. Please respect the paths chosen by others and they will respect you in turn.
ReplyDelete- In loving kindness.
Everyone has their own path and uniqueness, I hope that you may understand this someday. Not Everyone is a Wiccan, so the wiccan rede doesn't apply to every pagan. I am not wiccan, I believe in survival of the fittest, so sometimes I show teeth and growl to be heard.
DeleteBy the way, here is the link to the National CUUPS website that explains what the organization is about: http://www.cuups.org/about/index.html. The groups are open to all seekers of knowledge and all paths. We come together in peace and trust to support each other in our Earth-based spiritual journey. From witches, to wiccans, from pagans to lovers of nature - we are open to all and learn from one another.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.uua.org/beliefs/welcome/index.shtml Find this quote and get back with me....."Ours is a religion with deep roots in the Christian tradition, going back to the Reformation and beyond, to early Christianity."
DeleteNow let me ask you a simple question. Why is it you start out your post with the sentence "Tonight I have grown a little more disappointed in my local fellow pagans." All of these things happened over a year ago.
ReplyDeleteBecause I just became a member of International Pagan Locator, And when I looked at the Iowa File I saw you listed in Des Moines, but not with Sacred Paths. I still had the Sacred Paths page liked, and I did some comparing of the two pages. I haven't give the groups any thought for over a year. Thus the information about your Unitarian group came to me very recently. That is why my statement is factual. You and your group are not the prime area of interest for central Iowan pagans.
DeleteAnd Christianity has Pagan roots......http://www.pocm.info/
ReplyDeleteWhat is your point, exactly? And why are you so afraid of mingling with Christians?
Of course Christianity has pagan roots, I have been studying it for years. I am not afraid to mingle with Christians, where in the heck did you get that stupid idea? Wait don't answer it, it was rhetorical.
DeleteI'm a solitary pagan and witch living in a rural area, but I've also had contact with the pagan community for most of time since my self-dedication. I went from someone who didn't feel as though they had a friend in the world, to someone who now feels like they've found a long-lost treasure chest of friends. I've also seen where personality conflicts have done damage to the greater community, to everyone's loss. What you're suggesting is keeping the interactivity on a smaller scale, more manageable. That's fine, on the surface, but true community grows and develops, spreads out and makes contact with others, exchanging ideas and sharing knowledge. The group I've been with through my own growth and evolution as a pagan has used all sorts of venues, and the DM CUUPs group is using the place they feel comfortable with. Unitarian-Universalist churches are as open-minded a place as I can imagine, and believe me, that is saying something! I get the sense that you're okay with an anarchical approach to pagan organization which is to say, none at all. And that leads to nothing but isolation and despair. Been there, done that, no thanks.
ReplyDeleteI have seen what religious leaders turn into, And so I want to be part of a an open circle , where there is no central leader. People are free to enter and leave as they wish or need to do. I am glad that you have found happiness with this group. I hope that your path will grow stronger and brings you great happiness.
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ReplyDeleteYou won't reply to me because you know you lied.
ReplyDeleteI didn't lie, I just don't have the time to read your long drawn out drama. I got the information I was seeking, so this event is resolved. So please just walk away.
DeleteThen the event happened that changed everything for me. They went to church, they set-up a CUUP's chapter.
ReplyDeleteBy your own admission, you stated that you haven't kept up on anything going on with Sacred Paths for over a year. So why do you care what some of us chose to do? Why do you attack us for deciding to develop a Pagan group within a church organization? How does this hurt you or your cause? Your attack was unwarranted, and came directly as a result of having not been invited to the Iowa Pagan Leadership meeting last weekend. You took it upon yourself to accuse David of anointing himself the leader of the Sacred Bridges group and accused us associated with Sacred Paths of abandoning the 'real' Pagans so we could assimilate inside the protected fortress of a "Christian-like" church. You are a liar, and we proved it over and over again, yet you continue to insist your statements are factual. If you want to be part of an open-group so bad, then you need to build it yourself. And you don't get to claim that central Iowa Pagans aren't interested in a group like ours when we get between 20-40 people in attendance at every ritual we hold. Apparently, they are, or they wouldn't keep coming back. Apparently, they like the open circles and potluck dinners we have just like we used to do as part of Sacred Paths, and the difference you want to harp about is that these things are happening inside a church building after hours, when there are no non-Pagans around. I got the "stupid" idea that you don't like being associated with Christians from YOU. Duh.
As your hubby stated I was removed from Sacred Paths because you didn't like my personality and how I deal with things that bother me. So I walked away, if I am not wanted , why stay. And I never gave your group(s) any more thought. But then when I joined International Pagan Locator I saw your hubby listing Sacred Bridges instead of sacred paths. Since I still had Sacred paths under my likes I compared the two groups and didn't like the change. See the Celts didn't build temples or churches. They believed in honoring the world and gods by actually going outside and being a part of it. And I didn't know of a pagan leadership meeting ever existed until a week ago, and I was invited, I just couldn't attend because of work. So your claim is false. And I am building an open circle of pagans,
ReplyDeleteYou weren't "removed". We just stopped inviting you into our homes, because we didn't like you personally. We have the right to do that, but we can't and won't stop you from attending public events held with the CUUPs group if you were to ever lower your standards enough to actually see for yourself what you are railing against, instead of making assumptions about what the group stands for and how much influence it receives from the Unitarian Universalist members just by the "vibe" of being in the "church" building. Several years ago, there was a debate in the UU church about removing the title "church" from the name for some of the very same reasons you mentioned in your post: The association with Christianity was one of the top reasons. They were considering calling the church a fellowship instead, but they tabled the idea when it met with some heated opposition from the old-timers, and they decided it wasn't worth the trouble to take away the word "church" just to try to appeal to a specific class of people. I once believed the same thing, "church" means "Christian" and "mosque" means Muslim, and "temple" means Jewish. But not so, as we Pagans and Wiccans have temples of our own in many places. So, what would you suggest for Pagans to do in order to have a regular meeting place? Buy a building? Take up a collection once a month to get the funds to rent the community center? Have YOU ever donated to such causes? We can't meet outdoors indefinitely, and I personally don't want to open my house up to perfect strangers I connect with on an Internet posting. The UU church is a perfect neutral meeting place precisely because the Pagans meet together at NIGHT, after the UU members have left. It's just a building at that point. Churches are used as voting stations all over the country, and yet you object to the use of a church building simply for the fact that it is used to worship, acknowledge, pray to, study or otherwise revere a deity and a path that YOU yourself do not agree with. But at night, when the Pagans arrive, it becomes OUR temple, OUR grove, OUR sanctuary, and we can build our rituals just exactly as we wish, with no limitations, no judgments and no ridicule by the members of the UU church. No. Indeed, the only ridicule we are receiving is from YOU, who call yourself one of the Pagans. YOU are the one passing judgment and ridicule against us for deciding to build a community here. You are the one judging from the outside, when you couldn't possibly know what we (and I mean all 30 of us) are building here, with the Sacred Bridges CUUPs group. And, perhaps it hasn't occurred to you that the reason you were not invited to the Pagan Leadership meeting that was held is because you are not an active part of the Pagan community when you blog against specific groups and spend your days calling out what you judge as improper behavior and basically telling everyone what they should and shouldn't do in order to call themselves "true" Pagans. You aren't a leader. You are a dissenter. You bring a negative spirit with you. It should not surprise you that you have been excluded. I feel that this was why you attacked David and the rest of us from Sacred Paths, when you found out that you hadn't been invited to come to the meeting, and you aren't considered by any of us to be in a position of leadership. Not everyone is.
ReplyDeleteIf you don't like the changes that were made between Sacred Paths and Sacred Bridges, that is your right to stop coming, but you stopped over a year before we decided to start the CUUPs group, and as I have told you several times, the lady that started the Sacred Paths group didn't come with us, and she can start the meetings she was having at her house any time she likes or wants to. You're mad because the invites to our homes stopped. You didn't get the next invite to our pot-luck dinners you said you enjoyed so much, because of your negativity and your judgmental viewpoints. We don't HAVE to put up with it, for the sake of remaining an "open" group. We can decide not to associate with you because of our personal dislike of your manner. We aren't running a Druid grove, so it shouldn't MATTER what we are doing as part of the CUUPs organization. And it shouldn't MATTER that Sacred Paths isn't doing anything because 6 of us decided to leave it. There are opportunities for that group to resurrect without us. We aren't stopping it. We aren't writing blogs ridiculing the original group leader for failing to continue hosting meetings and running the group for us, so we have somewhere to go. We aren't calling her a "fake" and we aren't blogging about her failures to meet some imaginary standard of Paganness because she stopped leading the group she started about 6 months into it. This is all butt-hurt because you didn't get automatically considered a "leader" by a small group of people who mutually work together to insure unity, cooperation, peace and gratitude towards each other. Small wonder, with the evidence we see before us of the kind of person you are.
ReplyDeletePlease stop stalking me.
Deleteplease stop attacking us.
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